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dougtamjj
(@dougtamjj)
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August 2, 2009 9:35 pm  

I find it difficult to believe that anyone would want the government to control the number of children you can have. Really?


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Linda from Michigan
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August 2, 2009 9:40 pm  

Thank you Tam!!! A voice of reason. My question to those that want this is - do you have children? and how many do you have? And how many do they have?

And who gives us the right to mandate something like that?!? If you don't like welfare mom's being baby factories change the "cookie", "carrot" (whatever you want to call it) that draws them to be that way. And mandate classes if they are going to be on welfare - parenting classes. It is the society that caused this to happen - change it - don't castrate people and prevent them from having the life you've led.


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trw
 trw
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Betty
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August 2, 2009 10:45 pm  

"don't castrate people and prevent them from having the life you've led."

????? I don't have children, I love my husband but see no reason why we have to reproduce. I've seen more women who seem to regret it or are horrible at it, women who have them and can't afford them. I don't understand why any woman would want to have a ton of kids. Why isn't one or two enough?

I'm far from the only person that believes people have kids they can't afford is a very bad thing. You really think it's a good idea for children to be brought up in poverty? Really?


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Irijah
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August 2, 2009 10:50 pm  

why don't you all get sterilized?


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dougtamjj
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August 2, 2009 10:54 pm  

I don't understand your first sentence. I didn't say anything about "castration"

I loved having a big family and my children loved having a big family but that is beside the point. My objection is to having the government deciding how many children people are allowed to have.


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Trade
(@Trade)
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August 2, 2009 11:02 pm  

why don't you all get sterilized?

I did.

By the way, is anyone getting lots of splinters with all these soapboxes I'm seeing on this forum? :@)


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Linda from Michigan
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August 2, 2009 11:03 pm  

Betty,
Not everyone is like you. I grew up with 2 families nearby that had a lot of kids. They loved children and felt they could make a difference by bringing up great adults of the future. One family had 13 kids (of their own) and another had 10 kids. They were happy, made enough money to live a middle class life. Both parents worked - as the kids got older so did they (a good life lesson).

Who are you (or we - anyone) to decide who gets to have kids and who doesn't? And how arragant to think that you know what is best for everyone? Some people like to see the child develop and become some one wonderful.
But it's not up to us to decide that. And how [i]could you - this is a GOD GIVEN RIGHT!

Decentivize welfare. Make it so if you have over a certain number of kids you just don't get any additional money. Teach people how to be a better parent. CHANGE SOCIETY!!!

All are allowed in this wonderful US of A we live in to have their own views and express it. Lucky for you.

If you don't like the number of unprepared and bad parents out there - do something - get off your arse and make a difference in their lives. Hold a class on how to put up food. Teach them one of your many skills to help them become a better person. YOU BETTY - YOU can make a difference - reach out to them - you won't wilt, I promise you.


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Linda from Michigan
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August 2, 2009 11:07 pm  

That castrate was for me Tam


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Trade
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August 2, 2009 11:08 pm  

*-)


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trw
 trw
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August 2, 2009 11:16 pm  

y'all are getting off topic, the earth already has too many people, we need health care reform not more babies


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DaKine
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August 2, 2009 11:18 pm  

Subject: Proposal Congressman John Fleming ( Louisiana physician) has proposed an amendment that would require congressmen and senators to take the same healthcare plan they force on us (under proposed legislation they are curiously exempt).
Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go on his Website and sign his petition (very simple - just first, last and email).

I have immediately done just that at: http://fleming.house.gov/ . Please urge as many people as you can to do the same!

If Congress forces this on the American people, the Congressmen should have to accept the same level of health care for themselves and their families.


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Betty
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August 2, 2009 11:45 pm  

"And how could you - this is a GOD GIVEN RIGHT!"

Where's rotorhead when you need him? In this country we believe in separation of church and state. So I don't think that's going to pass.

And once again I believe if you CANNOT afford them you shouldn't be allowed to have them(there's your carrot). Not saying you shouldn't be able to have. Just because I don't see why people want them, I've met enough women/children who buy into the princess disney crap and believe they really want to have a family when they're only 16 -25 and older. And of coarse it has to be their own child, no desire to adopt, and help need children that are already here. But then there are a lot of dumb people out there.

As far as being arrogant that's the pot calling the kettle black honey.


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Lizard
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August 2, 2009 11:53 pm  

Dakine.
Where was the Congressman during Katrina? Now he is worried about a Gov Health plan without all the bells and whistles. Sounds a little Bard to me.


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trw
 trw
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August 3, 2009 12:07 am  

if you take a step back and take a cold hard look at things you will realize that modern medicine and over the counter medicines and vaccines are weakening the gene pool, disease is a good thing for the population as a whole because it weeds out the weak and unfit, you know only the strong survive,which is how it should be, but because society in general doesn't agree with me we need health care reform


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Linda from Michigan
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August 3, 2009 12:17 am  

Yes Betty, How could you chose who can and can't have children? It is a god given right (higher power - creator - whatever). I believe in separation also - don't let government tell someone if and how many children they can or can't have. It's not their place.

This is a societal problem that won't be solved until we implement some changes that will assist people, encourage people and maybe "punish" if you will people. Limit the amount of money someone can receive on welfare - no matter how many kids they have. Mandate that they must be either in school, training, or working to receive assistance. And put those programs out there. Have a co-op day care where you either pay or work at the day care to pay for your children's care. Grow community gardens and help them learn how to put up food. Teach them a trade or a skill. THIS is how you can make a difference in society and where it is headed. THIS is how you work to not have 3rd and 4th generation welfare recipients. Not by saying those who can't afford kids aren't allowed to have them. I've been up and down in life. I made $70k had a nice life, then got very ill, lost my job due to illness and went to being on welfare. I had 2 small kids at the time. I picked myself up and made it - got off assistance as soon as I could. But some people don't have the wherewithall to do that. They need someone to show them that it is possible - and possible for THEM.

Government should not madate that if you are living at or below poverty level you can't procreate. That is not the role of government. Unemployment in Michigan is over 14% right now. There are lots of people now living at or below poverty level there that weren't a year ago. Good people that will get back on their feet. And you think we should tell THEM they can't have any kids till they are above the poverty level?!?

Yes, that is arrogance. And no, I am of the people, for the people.

One Love


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DaKine
(@DaKine)
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August 3, 2009 12:29 am  

California is talking right now about cutting welfare. They are BROKE and Obama wants to lead us down the same trail.

California contemplates ultimate reform - no welfare

By Cynthia Hubert | Sacramento Bee

Could California become the first state in the nation to do away with welfare?

That doomsday scenario is on the table as lawmakers wrestle with a staggering $24.3 billion budget deficit.

County welfare directors are "in shock" at the very idea of getting rid of CalWORKs, which has been widely viewed as one of the most successful social programs in the state's history, said Bruce Wagstaff, director of the Department of Human Assistance in Sacramento.


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divinggirl
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August 3, 2009 12:30 am  

I believe that if the government is supporting you and your children then they should tell you when enough is enough. I think welfare should be for only ONE child and if you chose to have more the welfare ends period. You are then responsible to fully support your family. Personal responsibility is absent these days and it needs to make a come back. Linda - you are correct that we need welfare reform, however, we need sweeping change and no public official wants to take that on.


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mydream
(@mydream)
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Posts: 92
August 3, 2009 12:30 am  

I need to chime in here...

I believe with so many on welfare, so many young women with babies that it should be mandatory for them to take parenting classes. These young women are still babies themselves, usually have no clue how to take care of a newborn. I'm sure the majority have no one to look up to, or to ask for help. When they are in that kind of situation there is usually no family to help, so they continue on the same path as they where raised. Usually. As for the fathers, if they are still in the picture. Should as well take classes. It is sad though because most young girls will say they don't know who daddy is, just to get help, even though daddy is still living in the home. Maybe it's time to start having classes in the community's, they don't have to be government funded, just volunteers. Need to start somewhere and turn it around.


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trw
 trw
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August 3, 2009 12:36 am  

did the government get you pregnant? if so, then yes they are responsible if not, get a job and try birth control


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DaKine
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August 3, 2009 12:38 am  

Hi Lizard,

On October 21, 1995, Republican Fleming was elected as coroner of traditionally Democratic Webster Parish. He was elected to the US House at the same time that guy from Nigeria was elected president. So, I guess when Katrina hit he was running the morgue.


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DaKine
(@DaKine)
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August 3, 2009 12:43 am  

I think people on welfare should have to pass a drug screen to get their "pay". I have to pass one to hold my job. Why should they be any different?


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dougtamjj
(@dougtamjj)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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August 3, 2009 2:21 am  

Betty because you cannot understand why "people would want them" (children), I guess it is great that you aren't having any.

Trw, why in the world do you want dogs? Why would anyone want a dog? They whine, bark, pee and poop everywhere. I think the world has enough dogs. Nobody should have any. Just concentrate on health care reform. Hire Betty when you become senator to lead the sterilization of women so we can have zero population growth. That girl has great skills. Don't forget the spell check. At the risk of being kick off the board. Coarse, something rough. Course, Of course. Never mind. I'll kicked my on self off. Zero population growth is much better for the environment.

Trade, off my soap box.

Linda, you might as well beat your head on a concrete sidewalk. You are singing to the choir. The people here are just baiting you and deliberately pretend to misunderstand for entertainment. I guess they have no life. Sheep maybe.

Grumpy I am. Going to bed before I puke.

Edited to correct my spelling. lol.


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dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
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August 3, 2009 3:00 am  

Punishing adults on welfare mostly punishes the children of irresponsible adults. It is far better to prevent irresponsible people from having children they are ill equipped to rear, than it is to harm the children by curtailing welfare money, or by placing children in the foster care system. And I do think societies have a responsibility to set limits for people who are unwilling or unable to set appropriate limits for themselves. One's right to be inebriated ends when one turns a car ignition. Likewise, one's right to bear children should end when one is unable to rear those children independent of taxpayer funded social services.

Tax dollars pay for a K-12 education, and that should be sufficient for subsistence level employment. If one wants to do more than scrape by, like have a family, then one should work into a position with more responsibility. If adults pursued education and worked on building a career and a financial nest egg when they were in their twenties, by their thirties they should have responsible employment, be involved in a stable relationship, and be well equipped to provide a nurturing home for a child. Some people may be able to do this in their teens or twenties, but given the rate at which families are fractured in this country, most people seem unable to provide a stable home until they have matured a bit.

When someone exercises their right to own a gun, and that right is mismanaged, the damage is often so great that holding an individual accountable seems insufficient. Likewise, when someone exercises their right to procreate, and that right is mismanaged, the damage is never limited to the the irresponsible parents. This isn't a matter of denying anyone reproductive rights, but rather requiring those who exercise reproductive rights to do so responsibly.

As to the issue of large families, people seem to like marketing campaigns that suggest visitors take nothing other than pictures and leave nothing other than footprints, the idea being that if every visitor took, for example, a stone from a historic site in the VI, the structure would cease to exist. In that same sense, any person that does more than replace themselves on earth is adding a tremendous burden to our environment, requiring that already scarce natural resources be divided into ever smaller amounts to share.

At some point we will have to either decrease the number of people sharing the earth's resources, or deny some people resources while sharing resources with others. It seems far more equitable to me to limit the number of people and share resources with all, than to only give resources to some. But limiting the number of people requires advanced planning, whereas only sharing resources with some is the default if we do not control our population. So we get to choose, and refusing to choose is itself a choice, but then we have to hope that the people we love will be the lucky ones, and if they aren't, well, too bad.


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Irijah
(@Irijah)
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Posts: 171
August 3, 2009 4:00 am  

perhaps those of you that do not have youth could sponsor a youth or two from families that have fallen on misfortune.
or perhaps sponsor a family in need.
or a homeless person.
or one that is debilitated by mental illness.
if each one that has a complaint about an issue that stems from misfortune, layoffs, joblessness thru no fault of their own, a youth that got pregnant from rape, incest, intimidation or a mistake, would be of an assistance to one of them...perhaps one would have more empathy.
not everyone is impoverished because of choice.
i find the generalizations of the people of the virgin islands very sad.
some of my best friends lived in the projects, or on queen street, or in the hills...i found them much more real and in tune with things than the continentals and europeans.
have you ever walked the projects and met people and chatted them up...
do you really feel that their plight is by choice.
i am not talking about gangbangers, but the pulse of the island.
what RIGHT do ones have to come out of their mouths with the sterilization vibration.
who do you think you are...i think some of you are cousins to big brother.
as far as unemployment goes and ones harping for others to get jobs...
why don't you write to the president and tell him of the dire need for jobs in the VI...i did.
why don't you all get together with the LOCALS and lobby for industry to come to the island so that ones CAN get a job.
are any of you going to quit your jobs and go back where you came from so that a local person can have a chance at getting said job?
have any of you thought that perhaps these young men have NO HOPE and that is why they choose teifing as a way to feed their families?
most of these youth just need guidance...does no one have the courage to try and make a change there, or is it easier to sit at your gates, feeling safe and superior and type about the problems there?
what has anyone done to effect a change?
as far as health care, i am in favor of national health...did no one happen to click on the link i provided and watch the movie, SICKO?
there are adult seniors in the continental united states that eat dog food.
there are seniors that freeze to death in the winter here.
there are seniors that die needlessly because they too, have no hope and cannot buy their meds.
there are indians on reservations, whom are suffering...we should help them with a better quality of life...hell, our ancestors robbed, raped, pillaged and killed them by the thousands and then we stole their land.
now most treat them like shit and could care less that they live in abject poverty as well.
some of you that are so pompous and judgemental, can easily find yourselves homeless and without a job, forced to live on the street...waiting for trw to come by with a sandwich and a pair of pants. this economy is only going to get worse.
babylon is already falling...faster by the second.
let's see you lose your jobs, then your savings, then your homes...oh lawd...you might have to live in the projects.
lets just get healthcare for everyone...the same healthcare for all people.
i work fulltime, go to school fulltime, do community works, help others when i am able...and i do not make enough money for insurance...if i get insurance, i either...do not buy food, do not pay car insurance, do not buy gas for the car, or do not pay the rent...i cannot afford NOT to pay those bills, as i am always a paycheck away from living under a bridge myself...
try to have a little understanding of those less fortunate than yourselves...not all of you...but some of you are really a hoot...i wish i could see your faces so i would know who you were...i would hate to trip and fall in front of some of you...you would probably walk over me...
mostly i see complaints here so i do not overstand why some of you even live there.
some of you make me ashamed...i have never seen such blatant undercover prejudice and hatred before...especially on an island in the caribbean that is mainly made up of true caribbean people.
if any of them knew what many of you thought of them, i fear you would have a harder time than you say you do.
if i was there and met some of you with the attitudes you have i would suck my teeth and roll my eyes too.
it is because of some of you that the locals give no respect.
you should be ashamed of yourselves.
and by the way, recipients of welfare only get money for a certain amount of youth...after that, no extra money is issued.
and in NC, ones are drug tested if they apply for a check...not food stamps...but a check.
and as far as food stamps go...an elderly person in need can apply...but most times they only get 11 or 15 dollars...
we do not treat our elderly with respect.
as far as others, just because a person may have five youth and be on the system...does not mean that they should not be afforded the same respect that you give others. i guarantee that most of them are smarter than you...and have much more sympathy and empathy for others than many of you.


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