Michael Vick and An...
 

Michael Vick and Animal Abuse  

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Betty
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August 20, 2009 3:20 am  

He didn't "just hurt a dog" he tortured an innocent animal. What kind of sick freak gets off making sure animals die horribly in pain? Same kind of people that grow up to be serial killers. I mean do you guys know anything about what he did? He is one sick sick bastard. I don't think you get over that with a little prison time any more then pedophiles and rapist get "healed" in prison. Theres no cure for that level of depravity.


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Michaelds9
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August 20, 2009 4:28 am  

Betty well said (tu)

Michael


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aschultz
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August 20, 2009 5:06 am  

I think it depends on the person. For some just a small amount of prison can be a life changing moment. For others they find a home.


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eldove76
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August 20, 2009 6:47 am  

Divinggirl I didn't say you said it but you called me dramatic and I was merely pointing out that there were other strong opinions on this board such as Lizard's that was no less dramatic. I know what PETA stands for and I know what they do, did you assume I wasn't talking about animals? Well now, it's clear.

In some cultures and sub cultures dog fighting is a sport. I don't personally want to see any living thing killed but to call the man a "mutt" - so you're referring to him as a mix breed dog?? A gangster? What a contradiction we are ... cows can be maned so we can eat but do we attack the beef producer, no because we're going to eat it, no matter if the stress that the cow experienced changed the chemical composition of our food or the chickens the live in their own poop and are feed disgusting things but that's OK too because we're going to eat it. Ever think about what those folks in other countries who think that cows are sacred think about us? How can we be so judgemental just because it's OUR custom. The circus acts, and we have known for years what has happened to those animals but we want to entertain our children. Let's not forget our furs, ivory and what not... Animals tortured to no avail but it's accepted so it's OK. Putting animals equal to human beings is not something I would do or suggest.

White collar criminals have been getting away with their crimes for years... It wasn't until recently they have been called to task on a grander scale. What happened with the housing market in this country and the master minds behind deregulating the mortgages have not ever been charged. The fact that their are laws against discrimination but we have statistics and data that show minorities in NY (and probably all over the country) were the target of those upside down mortgages and no one has ever gone to jail or been fined for that and nobody wants to be discriminated against has any bankers gone to jail or been fined for that and the whole housing market blew up... or the fact that the banks have been "bailed out" but the homeowners actually lost their homes that our tax dollars paid for by way of bailout so the banks win twice... who has gone to jail for that? Ford motors put out the pinto (yes I went that far back) knowing that it could blow up and there would be casualties but the theory was the people that would buy that car wouldn't have the money to fight them over the long haul and the risk was worth the reward... I could go on so spare me with the white collar criminals going to jail!

The man did his time and lost millions, I'm sorry but call him all the names you want but he is capable of being remorseful... it was a dumb idea and yes it was cruel, no one's excusing what he did but he has gone to jail and paid fines... We complain when the criminals aren't prosecuted saying the system is corrupt but when they are prosecuted we complain because his life wasn't ruined, he didn't do enough time... Never satisfied when a young man who has made a mistake, paid his debt to society, apologized on national TV, that's not enough, he must be destroyed as a person, don't let him return to his livelihood because he was overpaid to entertain us anyway and then we'll forgive him? No thank you. I forgive because I want to be forgiven. Yes, the humanity is lost.

Our role models are human beings and they're going to make mistakes so if we would take responsibility for our own children and point out those mistakes, when a "role model" does something disgusting like this we can show youngsters early in life what paths not to take. I wouldn't want to teach my children not to forgive even though someone has apologized and paid their punishment... but you're not famous so you're no ones role model? I am done responding, you all get my point.

Defender of mankind (the meaning of my name) signing off...


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Lizard
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August 20, 2009 9:33 am  

eldove76,
Your analogy regarding Banks bailout has more holes in it than a block of Swiss Cheese. The Sub Prime mortgage fiasco was a product of Finance companies, mortgage Brokers, Wall Street Investment Banks and less than credit worthy applicants. Applicants that were getting 110% to 120% LTV on Real Estate Transaction. There was no deregulation. The people involved were all represented by an attorney and a Title insurance co. I don't think "Vick's" Dogs had any legal representation. The product liability law in the Ford Motor company (Pinto problem)? I cant even call that a stretch. Cannibalism is still practiced on certain South Pacific Islands. I really don't get your point. Oh I forgot my reference to Vick being a "Mutt" is the slang word for criminal not the cute little mixed breed dog.


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Trade
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August 20, 2009 11:38 am  

I get a little tired of "our culture" being trotted out every time somebody wants to give permission to themselves to do something ignorant. In some cultures, female clitorectomies are part of the "culture" but that doesn't make it OK. Civilizations should progress. Dog fighting is illegal here, culture or not & the Humane Society fought long & hard for it to be so but it's not enforced as well as it should be. Cock fighting was still allowed due to "culture." Some idiots even tried to say that horrendously loud music speakers & boom boxes were part of the "culture" but please tell me how that is when they didn't exist within my lifetime but are now "our culture?

Michael Vick is a thug. He "found God." Uh-huh. He really had no excuse for his behavior. It's not like he didn't have enough money to be entertained in any legal way at any time but no, he got his rocks off mangling animals that had no choice. And anyone who doesn't believe there's a connection between animal abuse & human abuse had better read up on it. I just hope he's watched closely enough that he doesn't do it again.

~Trade~


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Linda J
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August 20, 2009 2:39 pm  

Lizard, yes there are plenty of jobs that felons are barred from -- but not the NFL. As long as he's done his time and is involved in a legal profession, I have no problem with him making money for himself and the people he works for,,


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Lizard
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August 20, 2009 2:57 pm  

Linda J,
Maybe we can get Charles Manson released, he can be a pitchman for the NFL. Hell they released some of his disciples already that did the actual killing. Squeaky Fromm just got out of jail, what a party we could have. Vick could be the host, he got the money.


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Linda J
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August 20, 2009 4:11 pm  

I find it more than a little offensive that you compare as equal the murder of human beings with the abuse and killing of anumals, no matter how horrific it was.


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eldove76
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August 20, 2009 5:15 pm  

Lizard, if you say so... i
In 1999, Bill Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, a bank deregulation bill that swept away a Depression-era law known as Glass-Steagall. The new law had such a chorus of bipartisan support that it passed the Senate 90-8. One of the few who raised a cry against it was Byron Dorgan. “I think we will look back in 10 years’ time and say we should not have done this, but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past,” said Dorgan, a populist North Dakota Democratic senator, “and that that which is true in the 1930s is true in 2010.” Today, a few years earlier than he predicted, Dorgan looks prescient. The current financial crisis is frequently called the worst since the Great Depression. And Gramm-Leach-Bliley is often cited as a cause, even by some of its onetime supporters.

What you call stretching, I call business law facts and the TRUTH but no ones crying for the "white collar" criminals.

I think it's important to consider customs when we're judging others. Of course you wouldn't because it doesn't fit into the argument of today for you... more of human nature. There are two sides to argue and depending on your passion, previous experience, ect. both sides can be argued well.

Mines is and will always be:

The man did his time and lost millions, I'm sorry but call him all the names you want but he is capable of being remorseful... it was a dumb idea and yes it was cruel, no one's excusing what he did but he has gone to jail and paid fines... We complain when the criminals aren't prosecuted saying the system is corrupt but when they are prosecuted we complain because his life wasn't ruined, he didn't do enough time... Never satisfied when a young man who has made a mistake, paid his debt to society, apologized on national TV, that's not enough, he must be destroyed as a person, don't let him return to his livelihood because he was overpaid to entertain us anyway and then we'll forgive him? No thank you. I forgive because I want to be forgiven. Yes, the humanity is lost.

Sometimes these threads are pointless because no one is going to change their opinion and all this is going to do is have one looking at their neighbor out the corner of their eye but such is life and this is a great place to vent.

Enjoy!


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Lizard
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August 20, 2009 5:48 pm  

Linda J,
Too Bad! Charlie didn't kill anybody!


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mminstx
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August 20, 2009 6:01 pm  

because dog and cock fighting is a huge part of the culture down here the laws are not enforced,case in point was last year a man was charged with beating a dog with a board that had a nail in it,and the case was dismissed because the witness spoke very little English,these are the same judges that let murderers go on house arrest,they don't care about their fellow citizens why would they care about animals

Umm, the case wasn't dismissed on STX, it went in front of a jury of 12 and they all said he was "not guilty" after hearing the evidence. The one witness that came forward (other children witnessed this) was a very young man that was Hispanic and had a learning disability. He put the facts out there of what he saw, but it wasn't enough to convince the jury. Unfortunately, the police didn't respond quick enough to collect evidence and statements, so that was an issue, too. This was the first case to go forward on the animal cruelty felony law that was enacted about three years ago, which is sad,too. Interestingly, a few of the same jurors were on the Mario Roebuck murder trial (jewelery store robbery and shooting of owner) and all 12 convicted.

...and to get the animal cruelty law passed the part about outlawing "cockfighting" had to be stricken out, so that's legal.....


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Betty
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August 20, 2009 6:13 pm  

"I find it more than a little offensive that you compare as equal the murder of human beings with the abuse and killing of anumals, no matter how horrific it was."

Human beings is just a term we call ourselves. We are also an animal, mammal I believe, although some seem like snakes.


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Lizard
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August 20, 2009 6:26 pm  

eldove76,
Could you please tell me exactly how the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act played a part in the current Sub-Prime Mortgage Fiasco. Please advise me as to what white collar crime went without being prosecuted. Then let me know what this has to do with the thug "Vick". Also when referred to the stretch it was regarding the product liability law (Ford Motor Company Pinto you noted.) Oh in our society we are not suppose to abuse dogs for our pleasure, I have no say in what they do in Tin-Buck-Tu!


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eldove76
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August 20, 2009 7:52 pm  

The comment was made that white collar criminals had to pay for their crimes and until recently that was not the case!


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mminstx
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August 20, 2009 8:18 pm  

speaking of going on with your life after wrongdoing, remember this guy?

Ex-reporter Jayson Blair now working as life coach

McLEAN, Va. – Jayson Blair knows his new profession — life coach — smacks some people in the face like a bad punchline.

"People say, 'Wait a minute. You're a life coach?' That makes no sense,'" says Blair, the ex-journalist best known for foisting plagiarism and fabrications into the pages of The New York Times. "Then they think about my life experiences and what I've been through and they say 'Wait a minute. It does make sense.'"

Blair, 33, resigned from the Times in 2003, leaving a journalistic scandal in his wake. The resulting furor led the paper's top two newsroom executives to resign. Blair wrote a book, then mostly disappeared from view.

For the past two years, he has been quietly working as a certified life coach for one of the most respected mental health practices in northern Virginia.

"He can relate to patients just beautifully," said Michael Oberschneider, the psychologist who hired Blair and urged him to become a life coach. "Sometimes you just meet people in life who have these electric personalities. Well, Jayson is now using his talents for good."

Oberschneider, director of Ashburn Psychological Services, took an interest in Blair after seeing him lead a support group for people with bipolar disorder that Blair founded in his hometown of Centreville after being diagnosed himself.


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daniporkchop
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August 20, 2009 8:42 pm  

Betty, Lizard.....well said....well said


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pussygato7
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August 21, 2009 1:42 pm  

Uttica - If you or anyone you know suspects animal abuse in any form for any animal, you can call 778-1650 to report it to the warden at the AWC on St. Croix. I can't speak for the STT or STJ. The call can be anonymous, and the shelter has been able to save many many animals this way.

Also, PETA called for the euthanization of the pit bulls that were saved in the Micheal Vick case. Many of them were actually able to be rehabilitated and placed in homes, sometimes with other pets! See http://www.badrap.org/rescue/, and also I believe Dog Town has some of them.

mminstx-you are awesome for taking the dog in and nursing it back to health.


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Dan.Stutzman
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August 21, 2009 1:48 pm  

I live in Philly, at the moment, and we are not enjoying the choice that was made in signing him. But as a person, we have a justice system so that when that person serves their time, they can go back into society.

I have a lot of different ideas so I'm just going to ramble:

1. If people felt this strongly about their fellow humans, maybe we wouldn't have poverty.
2. If people felt this strongly about their fellow humans, maybe we wouldn't fight so hard for our right to bare arms.
3. An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

And finally...

WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?

Also just so you know, PETA is one of the worst organizations on the planet.


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trw
 trw
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August 21, 2009 1:59 pm  

blah blah blah same thing, the judge allowed it to happen, a jury of your peers down here means family judging you


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trw
 trw
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August 21, 2009 2:18 pm  

humour ok don't yell at me but peta means people eating tasty animals


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Dan.Stutzman
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August 21, 2009 2:28 pm  

LOL... TRW.. I'm not yelling.

Merely exaggerating the fact that most people don't seek rehabilitation but rather retribution.


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Betty
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August 21, 2009 3:24 pm  

Why would I care what Jesus would do? People have been killing in his name for 2000 years.

Frankly humans have overpopulated this earth. I don't know how you could ever eliminate poverty with this kind of world population. People need to take some responibilty and also stop destroying the planet.

Frankly I find it much much more rewarding to try to help animals and the earth. Humans are not better or more deserving. We should be much more evolved then we are. We should have learn something by now but we just keep making all the same mistakes.


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Dan.Stutzman
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August 21, 2009 4:36 pm  

Why would I care what Jesus would do? People have been killing in his name for 2000 years.

Frankly humans have overpopulated this earth. I don't know how you could ever eliminate poverty with this kind of world population. People need to take some responibilty and also stop destroying the planet.

Frankly I find it much much more rewarding to try to help animals and the earth. Humans are not better or more deserving. We should be much more evolved then we are. We should have learn something by now but we just keep making all the same mistakes.

(tu)

A fellow Escapist like myself. Good show!


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Bombi
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August 21, 2009 5:31 pm  

"People" only know what they are taught and the best way to learn is by example.

optimist with low expectations on STX


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