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Think the murder rate here is high - try Venezuela!

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GoodToGo
(@GoodToGo)
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Yikes - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38812149/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times/

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Topic starter Posted : August 23, 2010 2:39 pm
jsmith
(@jsmith)
Advanced Member

Think the murder rate is high in Venezuela try Columbia! Sorry I don't have the stats to post but it was incredible. Justin

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Posted : August 23, 2010 3:03 pm
STXBob
(@STXBob)
Trusted Member

According to the article, the murder rates are:
200 per 100,000 people in Caracas, Venezuela’s capital
22.7 per 100,000 people in Bogotá, Colombia’s capital
14 per 100,000 in São Paulo, Brazil’s largest city

The info below is not from the article. Some of it I borrowed from another posting I made.

In the USVI, the murder rates are (assuming a population of 120,000):
47 per 100,000 in 2009
76 per 100,000 in 2010 (projected by me, based on YTD stats)

According to FBI stats posted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate for US cities over 250,000, the highest murder rate in 2008 was New Orleans, at 64 per 100,000.

Below are the most recent figures for selected countries from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate

USA: 5.4 per 100,000

The top 15 offenders
71 El Salvador
67 Honduras
58 Jamaica
52 Guatemala
49 Venezuela
42.31 Trinidad and Tobago
37 South Africa
35 Colombia
33.4 Belize
25.2 Brazil
23.57 Dominican Republic
19 Ecuador
18.8 Puerto Rico
15.6 Russia
14 Mexico

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Posted : August 23, 2010 3:52 pm
beachy
(@beachy)
Trusted Member

We had a relative living in Caracas..every year she would come to the states for a visit for the two weeks prior to the elections...think it was October...said it wasn't safe to be out on the streets at that time...

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Posted : August 23, 2010 6:21 pm
chefnoah
(@chefnoah)
Trusted Member

I worked with Venezuelan chef interns and became close friends with one of them.

He told a story where he lived downtown Caracas and his apartment looked down on a stoplight intersection. He said he witnessed a car jacking happening (not uncommon) but he was surprised when 3 different people, in 3 different apartments leaned out of their windows to shoot pistols at the car jacker. I couldn't imagine it!

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Posted : August 23, 2010 7:59 pm
GoodToGo
(@GoodToGo)
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😉 Sounds like the Wild Wild West in Caracas. You're probably more likely to get shot by someone shooting at your carjacker...

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Topic starter Posted : August 23, 2010 8:43 pm
DUN
 DUN
(@DUN)
Trusted Member

Good, the jackers hopefully are getting hit!
I LIKE this system of justice!
Why spend taxpayers $$$ on terrorists lawyers????
Use the $$ instead to annihilate our enemy's!

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Posted : August 23, 2010 11:38 pm
aussie
(@aussie)
Trusted Member

In the USVI, the murder rates are (assuming a population of 120,000):
47 per 100,000 in 2009

The Daily News used a population base of 110,000 for the VI and published the per capita homicide rate at 51/100,000 for 2009.

The per capita homicide rate for the mainland was, as I recall, 5/100,000

http://www.allbusiness.com/crime-law-enforcement-corrections/criminal-offenses-crimes/13823278-1.html

"56: V.I.'s deadly record: Virgin Islands homicide rate was almost ten times the national average in 2009"

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Posted : August 24, 2010 2:35 am
aussie
(@aussie)
Trusted Member

Personally, comparing the homicide rate in the VI to the deadliest places on the globe does little for me.

Using the homicide rate published by the VI Daily News of 51/100K for the VI in 2009 and the FBI's 2009 Crime in the United States report, New Orleans just barely topped us for the title of the Deadliest Place Under a US Flag in 2009. Final score:
New Orleans 51.7 VI 51

We've already hit 50 homicides for the year and we're poised to own that distinction for 2010. Second place may not even be close. For comparison, here are a few stats taken from the FBI's 2009 Crime in the United States report. I did the math rather quickly so feel free to correct any errors. These figures are per 100K:

40.3 St Louis
39.7 Detroit
28.7 Newark
23.8 DC
14.5 Atlanta
14.1 Miami
8.1 LA
5.6 NYC

FBI stats are here:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/prelimsem2009/table_4.html

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Posted : August 24, 2010 2:05 pm
billd
(@billd)
Trusted Member

So what is the point? The murder rate here in the VI is not acceptable by any standard. It will be the crime that brings the VI to be a third world county like Mexico!

I think it is time to get out but I love the VI so much that it overshadows the brain.

billd

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Posted : August 24, 2010 3:13 pm
Diggity
(@Diggity)
Active Member

i didnt realize it was so bad....ouch

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Posted : August 24, 2010 6:45 pm
Berthold
(@Berthold)
New Member

The VI increase in murders is worrtying for sure. According to the FBI 2010 uniform crim e report, New Orleans has the higherst murder rate with 21 per 100,000:

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_06.html

Colombia's murder rate increased big in 2009 (it's 39 per 100k - not 35, regardless of what you may hear). The police there like Mexico are purposely leaving out significant numbers of murders for the last couple of years, despite LatAm cops' terrible rep for corrupt, both countries' stats were fine before that. This is despicablr beahaviouer and the figures you will often see are the police's unfortunately. Basically Colombia, with the phenomenon of "disappearance" even on top of the reliable health service murder rate, is more or less still as bad as Venezuela.

Venezuela, El Salvador and Honduras are awful however.

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Posted : May 5, 2011 9:12 am
MikeInCypress
(@MikeInCypress)
Active Member

Are the murders in the USVI gang or drug related? Or are they robberies that escalate? Have murder suicides increased dramatically? Except for the robberies one can avoid the situations that result in a lot of murders.

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Posted : May 6, 2011 4:11 pm
DonExodus
(@DonExodus)
Advanced Member

What about auto related fatalities? I'm willing to bet the death from those is far lower than in the states, and considering that that rate is much much higher than homicide... maybe living on the islands is safer after all.

Edit: nevermind, its actually much lower than I expected.

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Posted : May 6, 2011 6:49 pm
JahRustyFerrari
(@jahrustyferrari)
Advanced Member

Are the murders in the USVI gang or drug related? Or are they robberies that escalate? Have murder suicides increased dramatically? Except for the robberies one can avoid the situations that result in a lot of murders.

The murder demographic here is predominantly wannabe thug under the age of 25 who gets an illegal firearm and proceeds to use it on other dumb ass wannabe hoodlums as a way of proving his "manhood".

The biggest crime here is the lack of proper parenting of young men. From this crime spring numerous others.

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Posted : May 10, 2011 5:26 pm
noOne
(@noOne)
Trusted Member

The murder demographic here is predominantly wannabe thug under the age of 25 who gets an illegal firearm and proceeds to use it on other dumb ass wannabe hoodlums as a way of proving his "manhood".

And how is that different than the murder demographic anywhere else in the US? If you say "mass murder and serial killers" then back that up with citations and statistics.

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Posted : May 10, 2011 5:45 pm
poorthang
(@poorthang)
Advanced Member

JahRustyFerrari......Say it again my brother!!!!!! The welfare MOMMAS have done a huge disservice to their sons:-X The" NO DADS" are also guilty but they don't have babies

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Posted : May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
JahRustyFerrari
(@jahrustyferrari)
Advanced Member

The murder demographic here is predominantly wannabe thug under the age of 25 who gets an illegal firearm and proceeds to use it on other dumb ass wannabe hoodlums as a way of proving his "manhood".

And how is that different than the murder demographic anywhere else in the US? If you say "mass murder and serial killers" then back that up with citations and statistics.

Don't feel like getting into a pissing contest with you today.

Your comment doesn't shed any light on the root issue, which is the lack of proper parenting of young men in general, and, in our community, young Black men in particular.

You chose to ignore that part of my comment, I see.
Until that issue is addressed properly, you can get on bulletin boards and complain about murder rate statistics until the cows come home...it won't solve anything.

It has to start in the home. Until these young men are taught to regard all life as precious we will continue to breed killers. Right now, they are taught that the most important thing in life is money and prestige, and they will kill to possess those.

I don't have time to play statistics games with you...anyone can provide statistics to prove anything. If you want to pretend that the US Virgin Islands has as many serial killers and mass murderers as the state of New York, for example, be my guest.

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Posted : May 11, 2011 6:37 pm
noOne
(@noOne)
Trusted Member

Your comment doesn't shed any light on the root issue, which is the lack of proper parenting of young men in general, and, in our community, young Black men in particular.

You chose to ignore that part of my comment, I see.
Until that issue is addressed properly, you can get on bulletin boards and complain about murder rate statistics until the cows come home...it won't solve anything.

It has to start in the home. Until these young men are taught to regard all life as precious we will continue to breed killers. Right now, they are taught that the most important thing in life is money and prestige, and they will kill to possess those.

I can agree that is part of the problem, and arguably a significant part.

I don't have time to play statistics games with you...anyone can provide statistics to prove anything. If you want to pretend that the US Virgin Islands has as many serial killers and mass murderers as the state of New York, for example, be my guest.

I'm saying serial killers and mass murderers are an insignificant part of the problem of murder in the VI or the States. I haven't heard of a serial killer in the VI, but it is possible that has been overlooked by enforcement. Mass murders, on the other hand, have happened in the VI, such as the Fountain Vally Massacre.

What I am refering to, is what you said in the thread, Stupid things that tourists say or do! Please add! where you stated:

Worry about being MURDERED??!!! Dude, they are still digging up the bodies on Long Island from what looks like at least three serial killers..you would know that if you watched the news on DISH network. Guess what? Looks like they were all prostitutes. Do you need to worry about being murdered by a serial killer on Long Island if you are not a prostitute?? Most likely not. Hmmm, how does this relate to St. Croix? Do you need to fear being murdered if you are not a young, wannabe hoodlum who pissed off another young wannabe hoodlum by encroaching on his drug territory or trying to steal his woman? Most likely not. What circles do you hang out in that make you so afraid of being murdered??

...implying that serial killers (and as you have made clear before, mass murders) make the States much worse, and you are "Most likely not" at risk of being murdered in VI if you are not a gang member. That is the same all over the US, including the VI. So, the murder statistics are valid as a comparison of the risk anyone takes going anywhere, and the USVI ranked a close second worldwide for murders per capita, last year.

You throw all kinds of things around to "show" the USVI is perfectly safe place, and I understand why you do it, but in comparison, the USVI is not.

Edit:

Also what is unusual about the USVI is something many people come here and ask - "where are the safe places and where are the bad places on such-and-so island?"

What has been repeated here, is that there are no "safe" or "bad" places, they are mixed, unlike going to Baltimore and staying out of the "bad" sections of that city. (BTW I like Baltimore a lot, it is a beautiful city, IMO)

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Posted : May 11, 2011 8:25 pm
JahRustyFerrari
(@jahrustyferrari)
Advanced Member

"You throw all kinds of things around to "show" the USVI is perfectly safe place, and I understand why you do it, but in comparison, the USVI is not.
"

This is my home. I feel perfectly safe here...as a matter of fact, when I meet a fellow young Crucian on the streets, or in the projects, or on the beaches, anywhere, he is likely to bump fists with me and say "safe" as a greeting.

There is much more violence on the US mainland than here, statistics or not. You are more likely to be killed in Detroit than on St. Croix.
You should live where you feel safe. If it is so dangerous here, you should move to a safer place.

The "Fountain Valley Massacre" resulted in eight deaths, more than thirty years ago...why do people keep bringing that up? The recent serial killings on Long Island, where they are still digging up bodies, has a much higher body count and is much more recent. Jeffrey Dahmer killed and ate a couple dozen. John Wayne Gacy had at least thirty buried under his house in Chicago.

The last place I lived in the US was Kansas City, MO. I woke up one morning and the news reports were all about some criminal setting fire to a propane gas storage facility which resulted in the mass deaths of six firefighters. The next story was about a mass murderer who was capturing and keeping young men in his house, playing with them for awhile, then killing them. He was a much-respected businessman. The last victim escaped when he went to work, and was found running through the streets half-naked. I no longer felt safe in KC, MO, so I LEFT. BTW, my car was stolen the very first day I got there. It was recovered, and my insurance paid the 5,000 dollar repair bill.

Don't tell me crap about how much safer it is to live in the States. I live where I am from, and maybe you should too.
At least here people don't espouse crap like you will see here
http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/20110507/open-thread-26/#comments

I live where I belong.

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Posted : May 12, 2011 2:54 pm
noOne
(@noOne)
Trusted Member

*shrug* I know I can't change your mind.

For anyone else:

VI Daily News Article:

"The record 66 homicides committed across the territory in 2010 is 10 more than in 2009, and makes the Virgin Islands is the most violent place in the United States, on a per-capita basis."

"The territory has about 110,000 residents, according to the latest projections, which means the Virgin Islands' per-capita homicide rate is 60 homicides per 100,000 people."

"Compared with the most recent statistics available, which are from 2008, that number would rank the territory second in the world, behind only Honduras, for the number of homicides per 100,000 residents."

"According to the FBI, New Orleans had the highest murder rate of municipalities per 100,000 residents in the United States in 2009 with 28 homicides per 100,000. The trend through June 2010 was that murders were up significantly across the nation."

Translation: USVI has more than double the murders, per capita, than anywhere else in the US.

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Posted : May 14, 2011 11:29 am
STXBob
(@STXBob)
Trusted Member

"According to the FBI, New Orleans had the highest murder rate of municipalities per 100,000 residents in the United States in 2009 with 28 homicides per 100,000. The trend through June 2010 was that murders were up significantly across the nation."

Translation: USVI has more than double the murders, per capita, than anywhere else in the US.

Good points. To clarify: USVI has more than double the murders, per capita, than the worst state-side municipality.

The average murder rate for the entire US is about 5 per 100,000 as of 2009. With the USVI's murder rate of 60 per 100,000 as of 2010, we are 12 times greater than the US average.

The good news is that the USVI murder rate is trending significantly lower for 2011. According to http://stcroixsource.com/content/news/police/2011/05/07/homicide-data-2011 there have been 18 murders to date. Assuming that's still accurate through yesterday (May 13), then the extrapolated figure for 2011 is about 50 murders. For a population of 110,000, that would make the trend for USVI for 2011 about 45 murders per 100,000.

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Posted : May 14, 2011 1:25 pm
GoodToGo
(@GoodToGo)
Trusted Member

I just booked a trip and got an email confirmation. I thought you might be amused by the travel advisory for USVI I received by email:

Travel Risk
The incidence of crime is low and petty crime represents the main risk for business travellers. However, criminals are increasingly willing to use violence. Crime is generally confined to low-income neighbourhoods, but no area is crime-free. Crime against foreign visitors is generally low, though visitors have been victims of both violent and petty crime in the past. Valuables left unattended are vulnerable to opportunistic theft. Among the islands, St Thomas and St Croix have the highest crime rates, while St John has the lowest.

Crime
The US Virgin Islands has one of the highest crime rates in all of the Caribbean. The per capita murder rate is many times higher than that of major Western cities, though most incidents of violent crime are related to drug trafficking and business travellers are likely to be unaffected. Visitors are mainly at risk from petty crime such as pick pocketing and theft. Walking alone in unlit areas at night should be avoided, and visitors should keep valuables out of sight and locked away when possible. Travellers should not leave valuables unattended in their hotel rooms or on the beach. Visitors should exercise caution in their choice of social activities and maintain a good level of awareness at all times. Among the islands, St Thomas and St Croix have the highest crime rates, while St John has the lowest.

By Road
Roads are well maintained and connect all main towns. Rental car facilities are available on all main islands. Traffic drives on the left. Signage is not adequate and drink driving is a problem.

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Topic starter Posted : May 17, 2011 4:44 pm
Hiya!
(@Hiya!)
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Why would we be amused?

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Posted : May 17, 2011 4:59 pm
islandjoan
(@islandjoan)
Trusted Member

What I find amusing is this part: "Roads are well maintained"

Also, re. this post. None of us live in Venezuela! We live in the USVI. Just saying.

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Posted : May 17, 2011 5:01 pm
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