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WAPA Proposed Increase in Rates

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EngRMP
(@EngRMP)
Advanced Member

Hey Cody K,
I just checked out their web site... here are my initial thoughts:

Here's what I like:
- easy, non permanent installation (so you could decide if you really liked this; and it might be easier to store for hurricanes)
- easy electrical hookup (you just plug it in - it backfeeds through the electrical outlet)
- build up power over time (buy one system now; add more later)

Here's what I didn't like so much:
- it might be easy for someone to steal
- it's no less expensive (per Watt) than other systems (including installation), I think

Here's what I don't know:
- if you put this on your roof, are the materials non toxic (will the water that runs over them and into your cistern be safe)
- how sturdy are these compared to other systems (salt air, winds, etc)

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Posted : July 10, 2008 12:23 pm
Future Islander
(@Future_Islander)
Advanced Member

jahem:

Take it from a "Double E".......these advertised "power savers" don't work.......except the most simple one.......it's called an "on and off switch". That includes unplugging devices that continue to consume energy when "turned off".....but don't unplug the refrigerator....that would be bad.

F.I.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 12:40 pm
Cody K
(@cody_k)
Advanced Member

Ya, I thought about the ease of theft, it says they can be bolted down, I thought maybe a fence around it also
I would think, (but don't know) that they would be the same on the roof as other solar devices.

It did "seem" less expensive then what I've calculated for solar installations, I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time 🙂

Future Islander, its not a "Power Saver", its a solar electric system.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 1:00 pm
heepajeep
(@heepajeep)
Advanced Member

Future Islander, its not a "Power Saver", its a solar electric system.

FI was referring to the earlier Power Saver discusion.

My question on the Blue Link 500 solar panel is this:
It produces 500 watts per hour (2500 per 5 hour day) yet they claim it can run
television, computer, stereo, coffee maker, and microwave combined???
My microwave is 1325watts alone, it would not run just the microwave.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 2:28 pm
heepajeep
(@heepajeep)
Advanced Member

My current cost of electricity is about 0.11 per kWh.
The Blue Link 500 produces 720 kWh per year.
720kWh x 0.11 = $79.20

The Blue Link 500 cost $5000(+ shipping) divided by $79.20 means it would be 63 years before I saw a payback.
With the WAPA proposed rates of 0.39 it would be an 18 year payback. Assuming it lasted that long and survived without any maintence expenses.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 2:38 pm
EngRMP
(@EngRMP)
Advanced Member

Cody K,
If it's on the roof it's probably just as theft-safe as any other system. I was thinking that this thing is so easy to setup and use that I (and perhaps others) would be tempted to just set it up on the ground... at least for a while to see if it really worked.

You might be right that the cost might be cheaper... but, I'm guessing that if it is cheaper, it's only by 10% or so, not 25-50%.

heepajeep,
- I also interpreted this as a 500W system
- so, ummmm... yup, microwave is not going to work. But really, you'd use this to pump energy back into the grid... there's no battery.
- at USVI insolation values, we might get more like (365 days * 5hours * 0.5kW) 900kWh
- and with the rebates and incentives, get another 20-30% reduction in payback time
- so, it might be closer to a 12 year payback
- bottom line - I don't think it's significantly better or worse than other systems... do you?

I want to check their panel size a little closer...I'm not sure that the size that I saw supports 500W at "normal" efficiencies.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 3:16 pm
Cody K
(@cody_k)
Advanced Member

heepajeep

Your cost for electric in the VI is 0.11 per KWH???
I thought it was more like 0.38 on STX? am I wrong on this?
With what I have seen on this blog, WAPA rates might rise as high as .50 per KWH that would be
720 X 0.50 = 390.00 or more is you got the larger model.

The other model produces 5000 watts per day, approx. (approx. 1,440 per year) does the average home use more than that a day???
I don't really know? Does anyone here know, if you are conservative with your electric, how many KWH you use per day?
And what is the conversion of watts to Kilawatts? On my WAPA bill it says I used 344 kwh for the month.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 3:18 pm
amodford30
(@amodford30)
Advanced Member

real time # for a WAPA bill 616 KWH = $210.88 with all add ins, average daily use 19.25 KWH.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 4:34 pm
heepajeep
(@heepajeep)
Advanced Member

heepajeep

Your cost for electric in the VI is 0.11 per KWH??? No, I am currently in Pensacola, FL.
I thought it was more like 0.38 on STX? am I wrong on this? The news article referenced at the beginning of this thread mentions a propesed increase to 0.39/kWh
With what I have seen on this blog, WAPA rates might rise as high as .50 per KWH that would be
720 X 0.50 = 390.00 or more is you got the larger model.

The other model produces 5000 watts per day, approx. (approx. 1,440 per year) Yea, but that is still only 1000watts per hour, still not enough to run my average sized microwave (1350watts). does the average home use more than that a day??? You might be able to run a computer with lcd monitor or a coffee maker on the 500 and maybe an lcd tv on the 1000. I don't really know? Does anyone here know, if you are conservative with your electric, how many KWH you use per day? And what is the conversion of watts to Kilawatts? On my WAPA bill it says I used 344 kwh for the month.

344kWh/month is below the average for the VI's of 500kWh.

344kWh means you used 344,000 watt-hours for the billing period. Or 344,000 divided by lets say 30 days for 11,466watt-hours per day or 477.75watts per hour over 24 hours. Or 0.4777kilowatts per hour (kWh)
If a 100 watt light bulb is turned on for one hour, the energy used is 100 watt-hours or 0.1 kilowatt-hour, (kWh)

So you consumed the energy of 4.77 100watt lightbulbs per hour, 24 hours per day for 30 days in a row.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 4:38 pm
Cory
 Cory
(@Cory)
Advanced Member

The systems you guys are talkign about work, but there are a few downsides..

You are not grid tied/net metered...
You dont get to utilize state/territory rebate incentives..
You dont get the warranty of 20 years for inverters and 25 years for panels...

Payback for these systems is long....

PS...wapa rates are at .41c/kWh, and projected to be 50c within a few months..

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Posted : July 10, 2008 6:23 pm
Cody K
(@cody_k)
Advanced Member

What's the average cost to have solar electric house installation?
These things are 5K to 10K and generage 2,500 to 5,000 watts per day (with the sunshining 5 hours per day, I believe it usually is out longer then 5 hours per day) plus you just plug them into an existing outlet, no installation cost, and it "says" if you generate more electric
then you use it would make your meter turn backwards, giving you an electric credit? Is this not true?
I'm just asking, --trying to gather information.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 8:08 pm
heepajeep
(@heepajeep)
Advanced Member

Your meter has to be the type that can or will run backwards. If your current WAPA meter won't do that, they likely arent going to put one in upon your request. Then when you give an honest answer they won't.
You could plug your meter in upside down too, but don't get caught doing it.

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Posted : July 10, 2008 9:28 pm
Cory
 Cory
(@Cory)
Advanced Member

When you sign up for net metering, it is WAPA's responsibility to install a meter. Currently they have said that they will install a dual meter. if you go to WAPA's website and click on customers you can download all the net metering requirements for WAPA, the installer and you. With net metering if you are producing more power than you are consuming then you gain a credit that carrier over dya to day, month to month. If you have energy credits "banked" on Jan1, WAPA takes them back. This system is far better in my opinion. Most stateside incentives dont offer same rate payback, no limits on size systems, and if you produce more than you consume in a year they will send you a check...albeit at a commercial/whosale rate NOT the same rate like WAPA is doing.

You can view rebate and incentive programs for all US states /territories, when you click on territories and find Virgin Isands it also provides a link to the VI Energy office.

www.dsireusa.com

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Posted : July 10, 2008 11:06 pm
puddlejumper
(@puddlejumper)
Advanced Member

I came across this website selling wind generators at a reasonable price. By reasonable it doesn't cost thousands, but hundreds. And since I am not an expert, I hope to get some constructive criticism about these units. The website owner advocates using used fork lift batteries instead of traditional T105's or other deep cycle batteries. That makes sense to me. It may not hold sufficient amperage to run a fork lift, but it would run appliances and lights in a house. I have no affiliation with this website.
http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/Hornet600.html

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Posted : July 11, 2008 9:57 pm
Exit Zero
(@exit-zero)
Trusted Member Registered

Real Time #'s for last months WAPA bill : -- 3 bdrm house - no AC -- 284 kw --31 days - 9.16 kwh daily average consumption --$99.94

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Posted : July 11, 2008 11:18 pm
EngRMP
(@EngRMP)
Advanced Member

Ooops.. wrong thread...

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Posted : July 11, 2008 11:43 pm
terry
(@terry)
Expert

Used batteries are not a good idea. They are usually good or bad. why spend good money for questionable batteries? That sounds like a sales pitch, and would make me question other things they state.

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Posted : July 12, 2008 1:44 am
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